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As per:
http://tinyurl.com/craxhq
and
http://thedebrisfield.blogspot.com/2009/02/note-to-mr-jeremy-vaeni.html
more kafuffle via "Squidward" and "Patrick" from a
Paratopical Bikini Bottom
Ritz: Jeff Ritzmann
Lehm: Alfred Lehmberg
.,¸¸,.»§«,¸¸,.·´¯`·.,¸¸,.»§«***»§«,¸¸,.·´¯`·.,¸¸,.»§«·.,¸¸,.
Alfred,
Ritz: Clearly you cannot engage in a rational
argument, without resorting to name calling and personal attacks galore.
Lehm: Bat squeeze.
Your inability to make your tedious little case, your facile and unwarranted
elitism, and your inability to ironically handle disagreement provokes your
ironic protest, Sir. Moreover assessment is not name-calling and
personal attack is seemingly more your stock in trade.
Ritz: A standard of evidence shouldn't be such a threat to you,
as it's there to separate the "shit from shinola".
Lehm: Another of your
charmless mischaracterizations, factual distortions, and convenient memory
patches. There are more.
The "standard of evidence"
referred to is not remotely threatening apart from the way you assign its
status as never questioned holy grail. That's juvenile hero worship.
Immature! "Shit from Shinola," on the other hand regarded your
other
shallow canard, "Common Sense," contested because it is "Common" and
based on 5 inadequate "senses" leavened by increasingly dodgy "filters."
You're so damned smart you'd think you'd have that right.
Ritz: In your argument, every component of an inability to
debate the point or issue is present: venomous personal attacks, moving
goalposts, and attributing non-events and characteristics to the opponent.
Lehm: I suspect you
reflexively take disagreement as "personal attack," contested convention for
"moving goal posts," and if you're down with a, in my opinion, libelous dog
like Rich Reynolds expect to come up with a few fleas.
Ritz: Perhaps if you were more involved in this study past being
a sideline commentator, you'd have a different view.
Lehm: Rofl! That's so laughable I
have to clench up or soil myself! What presumption. What hubris. What
arrogance! Forgetting that some of your "commentators" are of needs on
the sideline, what makes you think that your contribution is any more "valid"
or "center-tacking" than theirs. Perhaps because you can gleefully shout
"Retard" at the top of your lungs? Because you can write long sullen
testaments to your own whiney boxed-in intransigence? Because you are
so insentiently unaware that you only practice what you preach against?
I'm something less than terrified or impressed.
Ritz: Perhaps if this enigma had impacted your life in some
profound or terrifying way you would as well.
Lehm: That's it!?
That's all you've got justifying social obnoxiousness so complete I don't
know how you get air past your nose bubbles?
Ritz: Perhaps if UFO hoaxers had phoned death threats at your or
family members because you have proven their case fraudulent, you'd also
have a different view...and would want to leave these "cases" in the dirt
where they so richly deserve to be. These exposed cases by the way, were not
based on opinions, but again, demonstrable facts which were presented
publicly and freely available to everyone for review.
Lehm: Yawn. This may
impress the rubes and un-initiates, sonny, but I see no dues paid here.
No, just another guy too willing to make others pay for culture that betrays
you, society that demeans you, Government that misleads you, Corpocracy that
cheats you... all nicely marbled with your own patent inability to come to
grips with the very real highly strange. Waaa!
Ritz: But sadly this isn't the case. You feel the need to impose
dissenting views with no real substance, experience or knowledge behind
them, and my guess is it's because you desire drama or confrontation. That's
just a guess.
Lehm: A convenient one, as
it turns out, nicely buttressing your flaccid assumption that you
must have the superior contribution to make. See, I don't remotely
support that entirely valueless premise. Rolling out of bed in
the morning to scratch my mottled ass gives me all the authorization I need
to "impose dissenting views." My smallest interest supplies the
necessary "substance," skippy, and my interest is huge. 60 plus years
on the planet, a completed and very highly decorated career all over that
world, and a recent college education satisfies "experience," you fatuous
pup. Confidence of more than a few quality ufological principals and
constant reading and writing for the last 15 years or so satisfies
"knowledge." oh, frosted gray one. Finally, it would be enough to
simply impose my dissenting views as apart from my own self-determined
qualifications...
See? That's what you do...
errant confrontation and a drama ensues! What's come first here?
Your chicken or my alleged egg?
Ritz: Or perhaps you see this argument as imposing some sort of
authority. It's not. It's about simple common sense, and examining data. I
am certainly not the first to suggest that we ignore nonsense and use
critical analysis, as a portion of this field has done it for decades. But,
perhaps you have some deep seated need to oppose anything you *think* is
authoritative in any way.
Lehm: Yes! It is an appeal to
authority. See ...been all over the "common sense," the "rules of
evidence," the "conventional wisdom," the "logic," and the "scientific
method," good tools all... when used consistently, but they're not
used consistently and so not the holy grail with which you would beat
your opposition over the head. Perhaps you have some deep
seated need to be angered when someone won't queue right up to
validate your tedious little world view, eh? You are barely
authoritative, Sir, but oppressively authoritarian... ...And you call yourself
an artist.
Ritz: Next, I do not know Rich Reynolds, have
never met him, and was only aware of his blogs recently when another
researcher forwarded me his "UFO Destroyers" post regarding of all people,
yourself. As he refers to you:
Lehm: ...Down with the
dog, boyo. Up with the vermin.
Ritz: "They gather ideas from others, either stealing those
ideas or bifurcating them with gossipy innuendo and a mental haze that puts
their psychological well-being into question.
Lehm: ...And it seems that
challenged to substantiate same they were just as successful as you
were, when similarly challenged. Too, remember this nebulous
knot of noisome nit-wits (or single nit-wit) to which you have aligned
yourself is the same lot (or individual) putting themselves ahead of
every ufologist on the planet, or maybe you didn't read the
post you referenced. See the stories immediately proceeding this one on this
page.
Ritz: They are UFO Destroyers because they degrade the
phenomenon with their ignorance and wholesale purloining of ideas that
others generate about UFOs."
Lehm: Yeah yeah yeah... forget
that this SOB owes me cash damages and effuse apologies for "Slander per
se." The scurvy bastard injected a meme into my community that I am
interested in sex with CHILDREN, Ritzmann! Did it again just recently!
How does that stack up to your whiney and prosaic even-when-true little "death threat"
story!
Ritz: Jeremy and I both were astounded at this
post, because it's accurate to what we're seeing...only it's months old.
Obviously, we're not the first to notice.
Lehm: Rofl! I'm
thinking certainly the first... of a similar caliber... to notice.
Obviously! You feelin' those fleas yet Ritxmann? Don't worry.
You will.
Ritz: Apparently, Reynolds engaged in some sort of personal
attack on you which I wasn't aware of - but it was apparent that it was
highly distasteful and completely uncalled for. So, I'm sure you see him as
an enemy who attacked you, both in a personal nature and in the "Destroyers"
post.
Lehm: You know? I'm
starting to get an impression of how convenient, fickle and arbitrary your
much vaunted cognitive ability really is. You've just shown your partisan
colors, Sir! Sincerely, I'm amazed at how contrived and dependant your straight-jacketed
cognition really is. With regard to Reynolds... in for a penny in for
a pound, sport.
Ritz: However, by your own thinking and the
venue in which these attacks happen: the aliens/trickster/enigma are
responsible for his behavior...so why be upset with him? I mean, he didn't
really do anything...it was him being told or controlled by the trickster,
right?
Lehm: Cute, nice turn-around!
Golf clap! Only... ...I'm not the trickster guy!
Ta-da!
Sorry. I don't espouse "the trickster" — never thought, wrote,
or talked about it to my recollection... so that little device just blew up
in your hands. Gee -- how "with it" and "erudite" was that?
Ritz: So, exactly where does figuring in your "alien
control/trickster" idea help this field? It's another dead end from the
start, where every aspect is attributed to the phenomena. According to your
"theory", nothing can be quantified, disproved, or gleaned from experience,
direct or otherwise. Sure, the enigma does some very strange things, and
further tangles it's path - but there's also human nature, greed, stupidity,
and self gratification.
Lehm: ...Don't know,
Stretch. You're ascribing all that to me, you see. You
have not touched one of my points. Example? You're fighting
me when "official authority" is the set and setting of every scrap
of ignorance endured and so where every scrap of your anger should be
directed. Another? We are betrayed by duplicitous culture? Another?
The mainstream is a craven mechanism of the corpocracy... See? I'm
that guy! All you appear to do is
make up the attributes of your opposition to suit what you'd contrive to say to
them... how disconnected and disingenuous is that. Not a question.
Having got the facts all wrong
you're entirely on your own, now. You expect me to bail you out? Let
me know before you land so I can alert the media for the crash. See,
with regard to human nature, greed, stupidity, and
self gratification... seems
like you do OK... entirely of your own devices even if it is to hoist you on
your own petard. How 'bout them apples.
Ritz: You would roll that all together?
Lehm: Eh... like I said...
hoisted. Did you want help with the word? I do so want to be
clear.
Ritz: That's further muddying waters already
clouded with decades of nonsense.
Lehm: ...Yes, nonsense provoked by
Culture, Society, System, Government, Church, institution, and agency
facilitating a status quo... a status quo you and Vaeni too slavishly support.
Precious little "cloud" from me, Sir, and you fan (and breath) from the same
detritus as myself. You're just a little more graceless and whiney
about it, is all.
Ritz: "Destroyer" may not be far off the mark.
However, perhaps Reynolds overstates it: I don't believe you hold enough
meaning in this "field" to really destroy anything. And perhaps the reason
why you aren't recognized more is due to your defensive attitude and
inability to see others points...or for that matter the soft thinking of
attributing every UFO malice to "aliens" or the trickster rather then
examine it with critical reason.
Lehm: One can only wonder
what prolapsed pore you must suck this stuff from. Are you trying to
be hurtful or insulting? Dude, you're falling way short, and I know
your little hopes were so high. See. I'd have to forget the
source and accept a facile premise.
Whereas, you don't even really know yourself
and you would pretend to pronounce on me. Rofl.
Ritz: Or again, perhaps it's because you are
simply a commentator...like a movie reviewer - you don't make films, you
just write about how good or bad you think they are.
Lehm: Oh, I think I've got
it now. Commentator -- bad! Silent head-bobber in agreement with
you genuflecting to the conventional wisdoms -- good!
Ritz: Or a sports commentator - you don't play
the sport, you just critique everyone else who does. Reviewers are a funny
sort, who are often failed at what they attempt to do, and so, write about
others as if they have an "authority" to even speak of the subject.
Lehm: Is this what passes
for more than facile premise on your street? If so? ...You
fumble, miss the hoop, take a puck in the teeth, and Don't. Go. All. The.
Waaaaay!
I'm my own authority on my own
self-expression. I don't need, require, or respect your permissions or
assessments. But thanks, I know you meant well!
Ritz: "Courting the mainstream" meaning actually going outside
UFOlogical circles to look?
Lehm: No, skippy! I
mean accrediting a mainstream too corrupted by corporate interest to credit
anything you handed to them even as it was scientifically buttoned and
forensically bowed!
Gawd! Breathe! That's what you
do,
see, thinking you're being smart. You validate and credit that which
shines you on and laughs in your face.
Ritz: Yup, guilty as charged -however this is
not to "court" anyone. This is about seeking new directions of thought in a
community or field of study that has been stagnating for years now.
Lehm: Oh squirting monkey
piffle! So! How ya doin' so far? Got anything figured out, yet?
You know. We're all waiting.
Ritz: The answer or new directions won't
(obviously) come from inside the field. Progress comes from doing things in
new and unpredictable ways, in areas we may not be familiar with.
Lehm: Sweet! Oh, btw, and
just in the interest of consistency... but were you going to credit Stanton
Friedman for your use of his idea? You know... "stealing that idea or
bifurcating it with gossipy innuendo and a mental haze that puts your
psychological well-being into question"? I'd tend to think the latter.
You thought you were immune and a complete original? Rofl!
You've been done a dozen times.
Ritz: I see many aspects of your insults to me as nothing but
projection, especially in the sense of "egotistical" and "elbowing". I've
personally witnessed such activity from you around the net: Glass
Houses...and all that.
Lehm: Ah -- more of that
formidable psychology. And throw your rocks, Sir, as I shall
continue, myself. My house comes down, my house comes down.
Ritz: I've let fakes, idiots and cultists "get to me" before,
I'm not proud of that, and I freely admit my wrongs.
Lehm: Oh? I've missed
the latter and interpreted the former otherwise. See, I suspect you're
a little closer to fake, idiot, and cultist yourself than you'd care to
realize.
Ritz: But in the end, the point was made and I
realized there's little to be gained communicating past making your
definitive case. All the rest is adding more noise and a useless waste of
time.
Lehm: but, but, but... you
don't make your point, see, as you're so quick to point out to others.
You saying something tedious and ill mannered and then slurking off in a
huff is not a point made.
Ritz: I think it wasn't until today that I realized why the use
of three dollar vernaculars permeates your writing to near incoherency for
the public: It's a distraction from the aspect that you're not really saying
anything. It invokes an air of disdain for your "reader's" when even your
writing style is confrontational. "I dare you to try and read this" comes to
mind. "Egotistical" and "elitist" defined.
Lehm: I refuse to remotely
apologize for presuming the high intelligence, spacious imagination, and
high school vocabulary of anyone reading me. As a trainer of Army
officers I confirmed that if you shot high you achieved high. Additionally,
I will try to use the right word as the more communicative one.
Your
angered proclamations don't establish accuracy actually, and I don't feel
any need to qualify my very considerate writing style to someone as
combatively dreary as yourself. Appreciation is abundantly provided as
it happens. Enough is as good as a feast.
Thanks for your concern. ...And folks! Keep those cards and
letters comin'in!
Ritz: Of course I'm sure the response for this is that it's a
problem with all of us, rather then communicate in a way for a mass audience
to understand your point. Then again, there isn't a point there anyway. You
hold something truly similar to the trickster - we humans who love
communication can gain very little from what either of you are trying to
say.
Lehm: Well, you read my
response and it's not what you said, so the question is how is that
"spring-heel trickster" you flog for everyone is going to work for you here.
See, skippy, you're just trying to aggravate and be otherwise hurtful with
such discursive commentary and that's going to be saying a little more about
you I think, than me, as times accelerate. Especially when compared cheek by jowl right
here... and the internet is "forever," eh?
Ritz: But, whatever. Just be aware I don't exit this
conversation because I don't have an argument.
Lehm: Yeah -- that's what
you say. And said... true? Mmmmmmmno.
Ritz: I laid out a perfectly reasonable,
detailed argument - and you essentially spit right in my face for it.
Lehm: ...disagreed equals
face-spitting ... got it! And the way things are going I suspect I
should charge you for the wash-up, regardless!
Ritz: I leave it for the same reason I left the
Meier argument - it's ridiculous and insulting.
Lehm: You are
ridiculous and insulting. And that's not all.
Ritz: And, not worth the time or aggravation
when there's far better ways to devote what time I have, to studying and
investigating the anomaly or speaking with others who might have serious
guidance in looking for new directions.
Lehm: Don't step off mad.
Just step off.
Ritz: Tangling with you becomes an effort in futility, and
irrelevance.
Lehm: Yawn.
Ritz: So, goodbye
Lehm: Um-hmm...
I suspect
I'll not have seen the last of you. That said, enjoy me
as I find opportunity to be so far up your nose you feel my knees on your
top lip. ...Say hi to Ritchy! |
Gary A. David at 6:23pm April 3
He must _know_ the difference... then. Why would he obfuscate?